On Wednesday afternoon, Chicago Blackhawks interim head coach Derek King joined the CHGO Blackhawks podcast with Jay Zawaski, Greg Boysen, and Mario Tirabassi. After some small talk about muffins and coffee cake, the conversation turned to the current state of the Blackhawks, the future of the team, and King’s experience.

MT

It’s no secret that it’s been a bit of a difficult stretch here coming towards the end of the season last night. Again, another difficult game. But the season as a whole, since you took over to now, how would you evaluate how the team has developed, and even yourself, how you’ve developed as a coach?

DK

I’ve definitely developed as a coach, I’ve learned a lot. This is it’s a different demon from the American League to the NHL. But I think our team, we’ve hit a speed bump. That’s all it is. It’s a big speed bump right now. But I think we’re heading in the right direction. From when I took over a real fragile group. Not sure where this was going to go. And then we got to winning some games and everybody’s happy, right? And then, you know, we kind of win, lose, win, lose, then we go on little stretches where we win a few lose a few. But this stretch seems to be the big speed bump or the hurdle we have to overcome. And we got the right guys to overcome it, we just got to figure out how we’re going to do that. And that’s my job.

JZ

It seems like that Buffalo game really changed the trajectory of the season, because even after the trade deadline, where the team had every excuse to say, well, you know, we sold off, it’s time for a rebuild. The response immediately after was really good, really positive. And then the collapse happens against Buffalo. And it seems to everything is sort of snowballed from there. What sort of things can you do with a generally young team to control that and rein them in and have them thinking one game at a time instead of, you know, amplifying every little failure?

DK

That’s the message every day, it’s reminders of all the details of the game. Make sure we’re, if I go back, the big thing for me is these guys need to come to the rink. Like I said when I walked up here in this beautiful building you got it’s like you want to come to work every morning when you’re in this atmosphere. And that’s the atmosphere we need to keep building over at whether we’re at the Fifth Third, or we’re at the United Center, the guys are coming in, they’re wanting to come to work, not tiptoeing around not on eggshells, not the poor me feeling sorry for ourselves, you know, and that’s what, that’s where my job comes in.

And I think we’re doing a good job at that. And our guys are relaxed, but just when they get on that ice for that game, because we’ve lost so many, you know, we got a couple of wins earlier than we lose a bunch and then we get a couple of OT losses. We’re starting to grip the stick a bit. So, my job is come in keep make sure everybody’s following the rules following the details of the game. But relax, take a deep breath. We got this.

GB

This has been a trying season, to say the least, with a lot of off-ice things like things happening away from the team. You even mentioned last night after the game that these guys are kind of burnt out. How difficult has all the peripheral stuff made it in the locker room this year?

DK

It’s been tough. Coming into this, as I said, we’re fragile, coming in with all the off-ice stuff. Even as a player, whether you’re having some problems at home or things are not going right when you get on that ice you forget about everything. So that’s the nice thing. So, you got to remind these guys of that. When we’re on the ice, we focus on what we need to do. Don’t worry about all that stuff outside of our control. We can control what we do on the ice and for the most part, the guys have really done a good job with that of late I think after the trade deadline.

I think it helped that Kyle (Davidson) was finally named the GM that helps guys relax a little bit. But there’s still a little uncertainty for players. Am I back next year? What do they think? And I’m not in the lineup, how come? The GMs are watching. Who’s going to be the coach next year. And even in our room as a coaching staff, there are guys up for contracts, and they don’t know what’s going on. So, which is normal, so when we’re at the rink, we need to focus on just the team and focus on what we need to do to get out of this little slump.

MT

The stretch of games that the team has just recently gone through, losing eight in a row and 11 of 13, is it kind of mirrors the situation that you came into at the beginning of this season, where you’re saying, you guys were a bit fragile? Is this a mirror of that and you have to say, “Hey, we’ve been here before. You can get through it?”

DK

Yes, exactly. That’s exactly what the message is. We put ourselves in this position, and we’re the ones that can get out of it. I didn’t like the outcome at the start of the year for Jeremy when he went through it. But you know, I’m not worried about that for myself. We can fight through this. And we’re playing teams that are desperate with urgency. And we just have to match that. And they know that I thought last game, we have our little ups and downs during the game. But I still liked the way we competed in the third, we kind of got it back. We got fans out of their seat. They get the empty-net goal, and it was over then. But I still think we’re trying. These guys are trying. We’re a young team. And like we talked about, we’re a little mentally exhausted and physically exhausted. But we’ll battle through this. I know they will.

JZ

I want to go back to something you said to start the interview about you coming in and taking over an NHL job and the difference between Rockford and Chicago. Can you be specific with that? What were some of the surprises maybe that you encounter that maybe you expect?

DK

A lot of it’s the details, the details of the game. The breakdown of the game or your whole day, your approach to playing a team, whatever their team in Nashville, Vegas, whatever it is, but just that whole day of how we break it down. To get a practice going, make sure the power plays, PK videos ready to go. And if we have to show any other clips, they have to be prepared.

And then you know, then then it’s media. I’ve got to talk to ESPN is doing the game or whatever it is. Then you got to talk to them, whereas in the American League, as we talked about Greg, it’s a couple of guys showing up on a Tuesday, and that’s it after the game I talk.

Preparation for a game is a little different because you’re more worried about your guys what they’re doing, and how the team is playing. So, you’re showing mostly a video on things we need to correct as a team, and then you’re doing a lot of individual stuff on I’m working with guys. So, it’s not as taxing. It’s a little different demon but like I said, this has been a learning experience for me coming into this not knowing what to expect. I thought I was just going to come in and go “you go out there, chase the puck around” and stuff like that. But, I mean, there are a lot of details to this.

GB

And speaking of the American League, you spent a lot of time down there as a player and a coach. How important is it for this IceHogs team to go on a playoff run? Looks like it’s going to happen. How big is that for some of these young players like an Ian Mitchell, like Lucas Reichel, if he’s back down there, some of these young guys that are going to be NHL players, how big is that to get those meaningful games down the stretch?

DK

It’s huge. I mean, it’s meaningful hockey for them. This is how they get better. This is how they prepare themselves for the next step. Playoff hockey down there is probably like, you know, hockey right now, some teams are desperate some teams are working to get that last spot, how competitive it is. And that’s probably how that’s going to be for them down there. So, they’re going to get a good look at what it takes to move to the next level.

And that and I’ve seen it with when I was with the Toronto Marlies, we went to the finals, the one year against Norfolk, Tampa Bay’s farm team that year. Half of those guys are playing in the NHL now. And a lot of the guys we had are all in the NHL now. Because they’ve experienced that and did well with that. It just pays dividends for sure.

So, it looks like they’re going to make it. I hope they can clinch it quickly and then some of those guys can go back down there and play some meaningful hockey, especially when your team your big team is struggling and not going to make the playoffs and haven’t made the playoffs for a few years. So, it’s good for those guys to get that little taste of playoff hockey.

MT

The Blackhawks had a long stretch of success. Now they’ve had some lean years and translating that to kind of your playing career. You came into the Islanders after their early 80s dominance run. You were a first-round pick. Does that experience that you had as a player translate to some of the young guys with the Blackhawks now? Specifically like a Kirby Dach or a Lukas Reichel, who are going to be looked at as like, hey, we’re going to be trying to get back to this prominence. And you’re going to be a player that a lot of people are going to have eyes on?

DK

It was hard. You come into an organization like the Islanders after winning four Cups and then we’re few of us young guys are and they weeded out a few of the older guys and made trades. And then there still were some guys like Trottier, Potvin, and Billy Smith, guys like that were still around. But, they’re so used to winning in that. And then all of a sudden, those young guys come in and kind of cripple it. But it was a learning experience for me.

I don’t know, if I was 100% ready for that, coming out of junior and going right to the NHL. I did do a couple of stints down in the American League was Springfield just for some conditioning. But I look back at it now, especially coaching in the American League. I think if I would have spent at least a whole year there, for one year to start would have made the transition a lot easier. Terry Simpson had a lot of patience with me, Bill Torrey, who is no longer with us, and Al Arbour.

It was a good thing those guys were around and have the patience they had with me because I can see how that can creep into an organization where first-rounders just not figuring it out. Two years into it and they’re gone, trade them. I always put it into, like, give a guy about three years to figure this out. And if he hasn’t, he goes, but that’s not my job. That’s just the way I think. Right? So, like I said, this is going to be a huge playoff hockey experience for these guys. And, this is where you build your teams, down there.

GB

You mentioned Albour, you got to play under him in your career. Towards the end of your career, you got to play under Joe Quenneville. You played for two of the all-time greatest coaches as far as wins in the league. How have guys influenced you now in your coaching career?

DK

It was just how honest they were and how they manage the players. And I had Pat Quinn too, in Toronto, a great coach. These guys walk into a room, they had a presence, you know, everything got quiet. And they knew they were ready to talk. And guys listen. Obviously, I don’t have that presence. Those guys have been around a long time and have been successful. Hopefully, one day, I will. I learned a lot about how they managed people. How they knew how to push buttons and make you make players better. Whether it was a little bit of a kick in the butt, or it was a hug or a little bit of both.

I needed a kick in the ass all the time. And that was Al. He saw that in me. But I figured that out after. I used to hate them. Why is this guy riding me? But after retiring and looking back and then getting into coaching, I knew why he was doing it because I needed it. And if it wasn’t for a guy like that pushing my buttons, maybe I didn’t have the career I had.

JZ

The game has changed in so many ways since you’ve played and I wonder if this generation of players would be responsive to a coach having more of a for lack of a better word, a hard-ass attitude. We had some people in our chat last night sort of saying that someone needs to flip over a table someone needs to throw the Gatorade container. Does that even work with players in this generation anymore?

DK

I’m not sure. We don’t have a table in our room to flip over and we don’t have a big Gatorade thing. So, I’m going to have to throw something. I’ve been pretty patient, and I’ve been trying to keep everybody relaxed, like I said, I don’t want guys to feel uncomfortable around me. But you know, I have gone hard a little bit at times, but not as hard as I probably should go. But there might be a couple of those hard times coming up here pretty soon.

I think you’re right though. It’s a different generation of players. I’m not saying they’re soft or anything like that, but it’s just the way the world is now, right? Whether you grab a guy by the jersey and shake them and tell them they suck or give a guy a kick in the butt. You can’t do that anymore. Next thing you know, the agents are calling, and the player doesn’t respond to that. But they’re the biggest thing here is to get at them. I think nowadays with players it’s more like ice time and set them up for game stuff like that. This is what’s going to hurt them the most.

MT

I did want to you bring up ice time. As we get to the end of the season here and the Blackhawks are trying to develop players, is there an importance made on giving young guys more ice time as this season progresses. Last night, Alec Regula gets called up and plays almost 18 minutes. Is it more, I don’t want to say forcing them to have more ice time but is it kind of is that part of the process and kind of starting to sit some veterans?

DK

There’s no point in calling the guy up to sit in the stands, if you’re going to call them up, let’s play him. That’s why we’ve called them up. And we’ve done a pretty good job with that. And they earned their ice time. We’re not just going to give them the minutes. But there are times when they make mistakes, and they’ll sit for a shift or two, and then you get them right back out there, especially the young guys. So, I think we’ve done a pretty good job of managing that.

When Rags comes up, you know, if he’s struggling a little bit, he set them for a couple of shifts, talk to him and then get them right back out there. And this is the process we have to do. There’s no point in calling them up and if he has two bad shifts and then send them right back down. That’s not fair to the kid. And what’s he going to learn from that? So, these young guys we have now they’re going to get their opportunities to get in, and I’ll try to put them in a position where they can succeed. And if they fail, then we’ll talk to him about it. And I’ll get them right back out as soon as I can.

JZ

When you’re a part of a rebuilding team, how important is it to have some sort of veteran presence? It’s impossible to go 100% kids because you’re just going to end up losing every game and it’s going to destroy the confidence of every player. How important is it to have some veteran leadership on those rosters? And how hard is it to keep those veterans motivated? When the expectation is you’re probably going to lose more games and you win.

DK

Yeah, it’s hard. You can see the frustration sentence at times when things are not going right. It’s creeping in a little bit now. And which is understandable. I obviously wasn’t Jonathan Toews or Patrick Kane in my career, but I remember being one of the veterans after a while and seeing these young guys come in and in the frustration of losing and me getting frustrated. But you have to bring it in, and these are things you learn as a veteran how to how to deal with that. So, these guys are learning how to deal with it. It’s not easy for them. But they’ve done a good job. They’ve they’re great in the locker room.

Tazer’s really good. His presence when he comes in that room the guys know the captain’s back and he’s done a fabulous job. I’ve explained to them that sometimes your game is not where you like it to be but that doesn’t keep you from being that leader and making sure guys are accountable. And again, they’ve done a good job. Seth Jones is starting to come out a little bit more. We miss a guy like Connor Murphy. We miss Marc-Andre Fleury because he was really good in the locker room and good on the bench when he wasn’t playing. There are some other guys who are stepping up but they’re not quite that veteran presence as a guy like Tazer or Kaner.

GB

When you look at the construction of the roster now, how important is it seems like there are guys that are like, this guy only succeeds when he’s playing with top-six talent? This guy is our fourth liner. How important going forward is it to get more versatility, guys you can plug up and down the lineup?

DK

It is important. It can backfire on you a little bit. And I think that did a little bit with me with Philipp Kurashev and Henrik Borgstrom. I didn’t feel they were working playing the game the right way when they didn’t have the puck. So, I put them on the third and fourth lines. Make them work.

You put Kurashev have with Lafferty or with Reese Johnson and MacKenzie Entwistle. That’s their job, right? It’s going to force him to play that way it kind of backfired a little bit. We weren’t getting much from him. It did help him as he realized that you think you’re working but you’re not. So, I think Kurashev has really learned from that. Winning those puck battles and getting into the gray areas. You’re going to get hit, you’re going to get smoked, like get your head ripped off, get up, brush yourself off and get back in there.

And now we’ve rewarded him and put him with the top line, or one of the top lines and he’s been playing well, he’s taken full advantage of it. It’s hard to take them out of the lineup.

MT

I did want to ask, going back to your playing days because you did play for a very important era of Islanders’ hockey, you went through the logo change to the fisherman. As a player, when that happened, what was that like? Because we’ve heard stories over the years. The fan reaction to that, what was the player’s reaction like?

DK

There were still some veterans around from after the Cup days that we started. And we still had that Islander pride kind of thing. Like we wanted to correct this. We wanted to be part of the next guys winning the Stanley Cup. The old regime was always around. Gillies, Nystrom, these guys, and they were always we always saw those guys around the rink and just wanted to be like them.

But then when this happened, they brought in this new logo, they told us, and I guess I can say whatever I want anyway, so Mike Millbury them told us you guys need to promote this whether you like it or not. So here we are at this press conference, we got our jerseys on and, “oh, we love it. I think it’s great to change and blah, blah.” And then we walk out and take them off and we throw them back into the box, just like are you kidding me? Right now? What is going on here? We did not like it.

Hey, you want to change the color? Add a little color for a third jersey or make that a third jersey? Go ahead. You’re taken away from a lot of those old-time players when they won their Cups. You’re taking that away from them by doing something like that. I stole my jersey. So, I might put it up on eBay.

The older guys weren’t happy about it. The younger guys didn’t know any better. Because they didn’t have that Islander pride yet. They were just like, I’m in the NHL, I don’t care where I am. Where’s my signing bonus and I’m buying a new car. So that’s where we were with that jersey. Not happy about it.

MT

You played and coached in Toronto at different levels with the Maple Leafs organization, historically a hockey crazy and hungry market.  What was that like being in hockey central in Toronto, both as a player and as a coach?

DK

The coaching part of it was great. I just had this conversation with some of the guys around the room and that how nice Chicago treats us as, as a staff or as the organization is top-notch, and Toronto has been known for, they treat their players their staff like, but I will say Chicago does is takes it to another level. And that’s, you know, I haven’t been in Toronto for a while. So, I don’t know if they’ve changed or updated a little bit there. But Chicago is, by far, the best place to play.

Coaching there was great. Playing there as a player; I’m from Hamilton, which is just down the street. So, when I became an unrestricted free agent, and they called, I jumped all over. I said, just make me an offer. And they made me an offer, they actually made me more than I was actually looking for, but I didn’t tell them that and I jumped on it. I got to experience closing the old Garden, opening up the new Air Canada Center at the time. Going to the Conference Finals, just the whole atmosphere, the vibe that was going around the city. It was a great time to play there. But it was just dynamite. Especially you know, like it’s like being from Chicago or the suburbs and playing for the Hawks putting on your jersey, right? It was like that for me. I grew up a Leafs fan and now I’m playing. Now I’m putting the jersey on and it was unbelievable.

JZ

What was it like playing in Chicago Stadium?

DK

It was awesome. Crazy fans. This was this is a great city. I keep reminding these guys. We’re fortunate enough to be part of this organization. This city is unbelievable. And the fans are dynamite. I mean the Toronto fans are great. Islander fans were good. A couple of them asked me to retire. I think it was right after my first game I ever played. “When are you going to retire, King?” I’m like, I just started. But playoff time with the Islanders was unbelievable. But being here and being on that bench as a coach now and then just being around; there’s nothing like it.

JZ

You’ve got to keep the cap behind the bench. I like it.

DK

I did it the one game. I forget what game. Vegas? Yeah, I kept it on. Ray Ferraro, another teammate of mine on the island. He was in between the benches, and I talked to these guys. Whoever’s doing the games, I always talked to them before and give them a little scoop on guys and stuff like that. So, he goes “you got to wear the hat for me.” I was like “alright,” so I kept it on. But maybe I change it up and put it back on again.

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